I. W. S. F. Worlds Doha Qatar

[p__]

NMonkey/Sim I am not going to comment on the ISWF and WWA as I dont know enough about all that stuff but regarding the kids comments .. I dont understand, this is not aplicable here. Please name these so called 'Little Johnnys' who have ever been part of the British team and taken to comps that can only do wake jumps and a 180s??? or even backrolls just to grab a couple of team points..thats a bit unfair. Also, you dont expect 'Little Johhny' (at the age of 12) to be able to fork out all the money it costs to get good at wakeboarding by himself do you. Ask Nickel, he will tell you how much money he has had to spend to get his daughter in the position she is in now. I hear Mike Ferraro isnt the cheapest coach in the world. Its these young kids who need the sponsership now not when they are in 'open men/women..etc'. They need to be encouraged now..These kids are the future and by the time they reach 'open men' I wouldnt bet against the standard of riding being much higher than it is now.

This year I think there was 3-4 boat comps and one of those was the Nationals so how do you suggest they gain the experience they will need to compete on the world stage. (a couple of hours a week down the cable)

Please point out the tiny tots world champ who can only just clear the x-star wake or manage a 180 or maybe land 1 backroll out of 10 attempts from this lot:

Nick Davies
Mark Rossiter
Johnny Carne
Dan Nott
James Young
Tor Young
Freddie Carter

[northernmonkey]

P i have no intention of singling out people by name as doing that on a public forum is not going to do anything for their self confidence and if you knew me you would know that that is not what i'm about. also my point is not specifically aimed at this years team selection. the point i am making is that Dan, Ben, Rossi or whoever have demonstrated their talent and should be the ones that a travel budget is spent on. yes i believe that if a 12 year old shows exceptional promise then money should be spent on developing their talent by sending them to top coaches etc and that would be money better spent on groms than on people like Nick for example. i agree with Nickel that it would be great if Nick could go ride with Ferraro(personally i don't think he needs it, he just needs consistant time riding behind a boat with his peers) but i think that is the responsibility of his sponsors and parents or himself not neccesarily the bwsf. unfortunately the industry sponsors will tell you they don't have money for this, why?
because the money available for sponsorship is small and one reason for this is that board companies for example distribute free product across a wide range of riders instead of having a small pro team or single rider that gets paid(i'm talking the UK here). at one point a few years ago, out of say 50 people riding in the british nationals probably 75 percent of them were blagging a free board from someone.
it seems like everybody wants a free ride, ive got news for you, real life isn't like that, many people could excel, or at worst make a living at many things given the funding to do so, but for a variety of reasons they don't get it, thats life its harsh but what can you do?
well you can up sticks and make a massive personal sacrifice for your kid and say "orlando or bust" or you can sit in England and moan about how someone else should be paying the bills and giving your kid a chance, the newsflash is that a 12 year old with potential may turn out to be a 16 year old that likes golf, football or smoking weed and partying a lot more than wakeboarding. should you throw your life as you know it away on the off chance, not unless you're an idiot or you believe your kid is exceptional and they could make a living doing something the rest of us only dream about. which brings us to what EXCEPTIONAL means, it doesn't mean someone whos quite good or better than all his mates it means world class and who can tell that in a 12 year old?
Nick without any real "world class" pampering and coaching is clearly something a bit different, he's a natural. A very close friend of mine had potential and spent time in Orlando being coached, not by Ferraro but by another respected coach. he went to Florida with a tantrum and after 10 days coaching had 12 new inverts in the bag, big, clean and reasonably consistant. thats pretty impressive but it wasn't enough to even get him close to "making it". he was sixteen at the time, he is still an awesome rider, and progressed a lot further after that, but as far as competing on the world stage forget it and he was better at that age than almost everyone i see riding in this country today at the same age.
what i'm saying is that its up to the kids parents to make the initial investment in taking their child to a certain level, then once they get there the Stew Mackies and Mike Ferarros of the world either endorse the kids dream or they don't, at this point the fed for that country should start to pick up the tab for development for a time and then once a rider starts to make it they will earn sponsorship that helps them continue their journey as a "pro".so yes money should be spent on kids development to a point and on the right kids at the right time but sending 12 year olds with "potential" to the worlds to the detriment
of other riders who have demonstrated proven talent is not the way to do it. and yes some kids parents don't have the money or the commitment to ever find out their kids potential, but that is what they call tough.....

[Nickel]

The boys division is really tough and junior men even tougher. I can name at least 4 junior men off the top of my head who were not there who would have been hugely competitive. I think what people are trying to get across is that the UK are really far behind and it is getting harder and harder to catch up. It would be a start to have the UK tour back. At least then up and coming riders would have something to compete in.Of course the UK weather doesn't help either.
The problem is we are sending riders to world events that have basic inverts and they are coming up against riders that are doing 7's and all sorts of mobes.(and thats just in the boys division)Even the girls are tough. Girls like Raime who has about 12 spins and inverts and to a lesser extent Estelle Tuaz. Tecnically Nicola (landing things like tootsie rolls and Whirlys) is still in girls as well.Who in the UK can compete with them?
I am not saying anything for or against that but that is what is happening. I don't really know what the answer is but they are better than us. Much better.
If we had not come to the US and we had gone to the Worlds I believe Nicola would have got thrashed and we would have got the shock of our lives. As Nick said earlier how can we compete with them?

[p__]

N Monkey, My post was also not specifically aimed at this years team, they were just easy to copy from earlier in the thread and I know even the youngest riders in this group are excelent riders. Some of the things your saying I agree with, I just didnt like the way you said it in your first post (tiny tots, 180...etc) go and call Harley Clifford the tiny tots world champ. What your suggesting already happens, the parents do pay for the boards, memberships, sets and travel..etc but to say they shouldnt get any finacial support for comps at the boys and girls level I dont agree with. There are people around that can spot talent at an earlier age than 12, sometimes comp experience is more important than how many tricks you learnt in 10 days

I think most of the young good riders (11-15) are already coached by Stu Mackie and some are already probably as good as your mate.

[Nickel]

Who are these 11-15 year olds and why are they not on the team? I am not being sarcastic I really want to know.
Another thing is at 12 years old it would probably be better to spend a 1000 pounds on boat sets than on a jaunt to the Middle East to get competition experience.

[northernmonkey]

p i'm sorry mate you obviously just don't get it, by your responses and the questions you ask you are obviously new to the sport and whether you agree with me or not is irrelevant, i am really done trying to explain it. if i thought it would make a difference i would be arguing with the bwsf about it but been there, done that and it doesn't work. i don't know which 12 yr olds riding boat in the uk that are at the level of 10 inverts plus you are talking about? also as Nickel says the junior boys and girls in the UK are so far behind their US equivalents its untrue, to say nothing of the junior men-Nick excepted-thru no fault of their own other than the lack of riding days per year and the lack of rich daddies buying them x stars to train behind. all the contest experince in the world is useless without the tricks as you dont win medals for turning up consistantly you have to actually do something. i'm sorry also but with rare exceptions like lewis hamilton(he's a racing driver) you can't predict what a 12 yr old with potential will be like when they are 16/18. it takes a lot more than money or potential to be the best it takes dedication and guts to keep beating the hell out of yourself day after day learning tricks and getting consistant and how are you gonna predict that?
the guy i used in my example is still prob in the top 12 in the UK he's not just some guy from down at the local lake and i can guarantee to you that to my knowledge there def aren't any 11-15 year olds in the UK that would beat him behind a boat even on their very best day so don't assume.
and finally i didn't call anyone a tiny tot....
its been emotional